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Author Topic: Cal Speedway National Race Weekend Tech Breakdown!
Richard Pressman Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by WChristian 2:
My big question is how are they going to be able to track down piggyback ECU's. Not only during the season but at the National Championships. It seems the only real way of checking is pulling the Wiring harness, which may be impossible on cars that have the roll bar built in so that the dash isn't removable. [nope]

How about unplugging the ECU and various other 'key' components which communicate with it. Then measure the resistance in the wiring harness between those key components and the ECU. Shouldn't their be a specific value (dead short) which is common to all un-modified harness? Cars that measure outside the established range could be further examined.

BTW, I can't take credit for this idea. IIRC, Chris Windsor made this suggestion at an SSM meeting last year in WDCR @ Summit Point. I don't remember it getting much interest at the time, but I think it deserves a close look.

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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Detecting a piggyback will take a bit more careful measurement than that, but you are certainly on the right track...

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

WChristian 2
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Pressman:
quote:
Originally posted by WChristian 2:
My big question is how are they going to be able to track down piggyback ECU's. Not only during the season but at the National Championships. It seems the only real way of checking is pulling the Wiring harness, which may be impossible on cars that have the roll bar built in so that the dash isn't removable. [nope]

How about unplugging the ECU and various other 'key' components which communicate with it. Then measure the resistance in the wiring harness between those key components and the ECU. Shouldn't their be a specific value (dead short) which is common to all un-modified harness? Cars that measure outside the established range could be further examined.

BTW, I can't take credit for this idea. IIRC, Chris Windsor made this suggestion at an SSM meeting last year in WDCR @ Summit Point. I don't remember it getting much interest at the time, but I think it deserves a close look.

Here are a few problems I see with that.

1. The tech inspector must know how to properly use and read a Digital multimeter, which also must be properly calibrated.

2. The wiring harness will now have to have specs provided by Mazda or the measurements will be left to the abilities of the tech steward to decipher the the Electrical Circuit Diagrams, predict readings, and take correct measurement.

3. Mazda will have to supply harness wiring diagrams, measurement instruction, spec readings for each wire, and do it for every year vehicle from 90-04. (Mazda Service Publications wont even do that for its dealer network in their manuals).

4. Data management or data loggers are also tapped into the main engine wiring harness (i.e. Mychron). How will tech determine if their readings on certain wires are due to a piggyback or a data logger. (i.e. RPM, Throttle Position,ECT, .....etc)

[help]

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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WChristian,

I don't think it's that hard to detect a piggyback. Detecting resistors placed in series to the thermosensors (fooling the 99+ ECU into thinking the engine is cooler than it is) takes a bit more precision, but nothing too high tech. The required alterations in values are in the kiloohm range, easily detected by even low cost ohmmeters.

The Haltech Interceptor, for example, 'hijacks' the signals that the ECU receives from important sensors in order to fool the ECU into doing something more powerful than the factory planned. It's a nice piece. You can do the same thing with the MoTec M4x can do the same.

The installation instructions for the Haltech tell you to cut the wire from the MAF/AFM, the CAS and perhaps the temp sensor and insert the Haltech into the circuit. The inputs to the Haltech are highly likely to be very high impedance and the voltage outputs are based on the map and the input.

So, if you wanted to test to see if a Haltech was on board, you would disconnect the harness at the MAF or AFM and the ECU. With the power off, the resistance would be in the many kiloohms if not megaohms vs. the unmolested harness which would have a few ohms at most. This doesn't require a lot of calibration to detect. Repeat for the CAS/crank trigger.

The sensors for data acquisition would have a different impact. The terminal-to-terminal resistance is not altered by putting a sensor on the wire, but a VERY slight path to ground is created. So, if you measured from one terminal to ground, you'd see many many kiloohms, if not many megaohms, but not the open circuit you would expect in a car without DAQ. The DAQ sensors are intentionally designed to have very high input impedance in order to have little or no effect on the circuit being sampled.

Bottom line.... finding the piggyback ain't so hard.

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Bobby C
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Kent,
what if you had 2 computers OEM and A/M connected to the same main harness with a switch inside the car. Could it then be detected? Or if you had an A/M computer with the OEM maps and then your "race map" the computer resets back to OEM map after the main power switch is turned off, them downloaded again before race and qual??? Just thoughts.....


Bobby

WChristian 2
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The issue I see is how can you disqualify someone for having high resistance detected in a wire with no specs as to the "normal". I see your reasoning but I don't see how they can enforce a disqualification for any electical measurement without some kind of spec.

Richard Pressman Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I agree, you can't DQ someone just for high resistance. But failing the resistance test shouts out that there is a very strong reason to suspect that there have been modifications made to the electrical system.
It should result in a much more invasive inspection/teardown of the offending cars wiring harness and electrical system.

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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quote:
Originally posted by Bobby C:
Kent,
what if you had 2 computers OEM and A/M connected to the same main harness with a switch inside the car. Could it then be detected? Or if you had an A/M computer with the OEM maps and then your "race map" the computer resets back to OEM map after the main power switch is turned off, them downloaded again before race and qual??? Just thoughts.....


Bobby

Bobby, just changing the map wouldn't keep the piggyback from being easily detected. There is a way to make the piggyback harder to detect, but it requires some sophistication and cost. Plus, the additional circuitry would be pretty bulky and hard to hide. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm certain I could hide it from the ohmmeter. It would only add a couple hundred bucks to the cost of the piggyback to do it in a completely undetectable way. I retract my previous post [Smile]

Hmm... the Haltech isn't that expensive either!

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Turn7Motorsports
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quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Christian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHZztJKhRI0

Begin rant......

Are you kidding me? I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this one. Let me just say, its a good thing his car has like 256 horsepower!

I commend him on his ability on making horsepower (applause!)

Next time he should premeditate a less obvious game plan. I guess he thought pulling like 50 cars on the front straight, $hit even in the middle straight would not look obvious, hahaha!

You guys were talking about steering racks? Are you sure his was not just broken? [Wink]

....end rant

WChristian 2
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I honestly feared for his life at some points during the race. I think he might have a few sticking brake calipers [rolling on floor laughin]

Brian Towey Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by dtfastbear:
Our SCCA region (San Francisco) calls bump drafting "contact" and specifically doesn't allow it. We've had folks black flagged and penalized in both qualifying and regional races in SM.

NASA doesn't consider this reportable contact, so it is allowed without penalty.

Cheers,

Dean

That whole bump drafting thing is a pet peeve of mine too. I was talked to over the same SFR SCCA race weekend as the video link below about the "bumping is contact" thing.

I know it might happen, but I've never seen a car lost to bump drafting. I've seen many lost to poor driving that is then written off by stewards as "racing incidents". Whatever.

You might be amazed that I was able to tie un-punished contact and the same sticky brake caliper (noted above) together in one video.

Contact Video

BT

--------------------
Brian Towey
Oregon Region #26
http://meettheroad.wordpress.com/

Mogren
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The 98 car appears to have about 10 hp over cam car ,but it also has a lot less rotational mass. Maybe light flywheel ,narrow gears. This allows it to accelerate much better. The compression is just the tip of that block of ice.IMHO. MM

--------------------
Mike Ogren,Protech Power, Sponser of Michael S.Ogren,SM # 13, ministock #13, ITB #17. Sponsered by http://www.mopedmadness.net

TimBuck Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
I'll believe it when I believe it.

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Careful Mogren- you're comparing (via video, no less) a heavier car with a 4.3 RP to a lighter car with a 4.1 RP.

I am not making excuses for anyone (not by ANY means). But SOME of what we are seeing could possibly be contributed to that.

--------------------
Tim Buck

MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development
Mazda North American Operations
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Tyler Dahl Verified Driver Series Champ
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That's funny Brian, your video has Mr.horsepower as well in his 1.6 (white SM)

--------------------
Tyler Dahl
Race Engineering
Miatacage.com
Carbotech

tahoe z Verified Driver
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hi,i raced there,in that race , and know the car and it does not have narrow gears,light flywheel,etc,!i have read 113 post and i cant stay quite anymore!he has won the runnoffs in DSR.so listen to tim as he is on the right track!

--------------------
kim willcox

CLee
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I think it's better not to bring up the runoffs as that will open another can of worms...

Brian Towey Verified Driver
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It is a big step forward that the SCCA is checking for compliance. I consider that a huge step forward and a great thing for Spec Miata.

And, there are some things you can do to keep non-compliant (cheater) cars out of your races without having to rely so much on the Stewards.

For example:

The next time this guy shows up at a race you can file a protest of his car. It costs $50 at a National and $25 at a Regional, and must be done at least one hour before the start of the race (you can also protest his skillful driving after the race if you want to).

If it were me, in this case, Id pick more than one item (Flywheel, Clutch, Gear Ratio) all relatively easy and quick to do in impound. You could also protest the ECU and suspected piggyback if you want to (the Stewards will probably ask you how you want it checked).

BT

--------------------
Brian Towey
Oregon Region #26
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Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Towey:
It is a big step forward that the SCCA is checking for compliance. I consider that a huge step forward and a great thing for Spec Miata.

And, there are some things you can do to keep non-compliant (cheater) cars out of your races without having to rely so much on the Stewards.

For example:

The next time this guy shows up at a race you can file a protest of his car. It costs $50 at a National and $25 at a Regional, and must be done at least one hour before the start of the race (you can also protest his skillful driving after the race if you want to).

If it were me, in this case, Id pick more than one item (Flywheel, Clutch, Gear Ratio) all relatively easy and quick to do in impound. You could also protest the ECU and suspected piggyback if you want to (the Stewards will probably ask you how you want it checked).

BT

Brian,

It will be those figures you posted, plus some bond fee determined by race officials. It may range from a few hundred and up depending how deep the item of protest is. If the part protested is out of compliance, the protester will get his bond back for that item.

--------------------
James York


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Ara Verified Driver Series Champ
MX-5 CUP and SM Peddler

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Brian,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, it is more complicated than what you suggest. The cost of protesting mechanical non-compliance is MUCH higher as the one writing the protest has to post a tear-down bond for the work that needs to be done to determine compliance.

In a separate thread, I have proposed that set bonds be developed and shared for common cheats so that the one writing the protest knows ahead of time what it is going to be. Today, the tear-down bond is re-estimated (sometimes at wildly high numbers) every time someone writes a protest. I urge you to write the SMAC and CRB and request the bond-setting to be uniform and available to all competitors.

Ara

--------------------
www.alararacing.com

Mogren
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You're right Tim. I assume the camera car is a "known good value", without knowing the car. I have raced a few years...
If all the engines put down the same dyno pull, there must be a weight value that is different somewhere. The suspect car pulls the best,in the low gears. This suggest the weight variance is engine speed. The advantage is less as the cars get up to terminal V. This suggest a fairly close toatl power ,in high gear. Still a small advantage.
I apolagize to the suspect driver.
Iwas pretty sure that the SM class is supposed to be about a well driven race. The second place car is clearly better driven. When the leader makes a mistake, the chaser should be able to get by, IMHO. The leader clearly made many errors, covered by his power system. If the power system is legal, fine..
MM

--------------------
Mike Ogren,Protech Power, Sponser of Michael S.Ogren,SM # 13, ministock #13, ITB #17. Sponsered by http://www.mopedmadness.net

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Towey:
It is a big step forward that the SCCA is checking for compliance. I consider that a huge step forward and a great thing for Spec Miata.


Mini-Hijack:
Going forward, SoCal NASA will be checking a list of items too. The days of 4 car fields and not even a post race weight measurement are gone.

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

GW
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Glad to hear John the tech will be ramped up for NASA this year.

To have a couple of the podium finishers at the Nasa runoffs DQ'd at Topeka obviously did not make Nasa look good for missing those items.

And your right the 4 car fields are gone. At least for So Cal you will see 25 - 30 car fields this year!

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

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quote:
Originally posted by GW:
At least for So Cal you will see 25 - 30 car fields this year!

Wait until October when the NorCal circus comes to town! Have you guys had 40+ spec miatas in a race at Buttonwillow before? Should be fun...

Cheers,

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
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Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

WChristian 2
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LOL 40+ cars at Buttonwillow sounds more like a destruction derby than a race!!

CLee
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SCCA's GCR allows up to 25 car/mi... NASA's CCR didn't specify maximum, so using SCCA as guideline, theoretically Buttonwillow can accommodate 70+ cars!

I think we had close to a 30 car field several times, and I am sure some rows in the rear were not on the the front straight when the green flag came out.

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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At what point does the car count get so big that we end up on a spec miata "merry-go-round" Just kind of a funny picture to invision.

Can't wait to race in that though. At that point no one can complain that they don't have anyone to race with.

--------------------
31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
faster than the average bear...

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50 cars would be *nothing* at Buttonwillow. Even very large fields spread out very quickly and you end up with fun 2 to 4 car battles. 70+ cars racing at the NorCal tracks hasn't been a problem. Qualifying on the other hand... is a pain in the ass. With consistently large fields in Spec Miata for SCCA, split qualifying has made things wonderful. Our "Group 5" is routinely 50-60 cars of widely different capability, and the races are still fine.

The only time I found the "tipping point" for the merry-go-round was at LeMons at Altamont. 80 cars on 1.3 mile circuit? Once 10-20 of them dropped out, it actually became raceable, though.

Dean

--------------------
NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
www.molaps.com

Winner - Ford Racing Mustang Challenge Driver Shootout

Evil Genius Racing / Race Engineering / Stewart Development

John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Okay, not the slowest anymore...

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quote:
Originally posted by dtfastbear:
Qualifying on the other hand... is a pain in the ass.

Qualifying race !!!

--------------------
Thanks,
John Mueller
NASA SM National Director
http://www.Weekend-Racer.com
#13 "Tiger Miata" - 2009 SoCal SSM Champion

Mark Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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So now 'warmup' is qualifying for the qualifying race. BT. Still two races are better than one.

--------------------
Mark
http://www.ironcanyonmotorsports.com

Jeremy Pike
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark:
Still two races are better than one.

That's the beauty of a NASA weekend.. [thumbsup]

Dan Tiley Verified Driver Series Champ
Are you followin' me, camera guy???

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quote:
Originally posted by SWDouglass:
At what point does the car count get so big that we end up on a spec miata "merry-go-round" Just kind of a funny picture to invision.

When it looks like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpw4jHGp_VE

--------------------
Dan Tiley

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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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Can some elaborate on a story I heard this weekend at the convention that was not all that flattering of a SM car powersliding at SCCA officials in the paddock? This is not the press our class needs. If this is the case, it was in extremely poor taste. Who was the driver?
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Well I give up Jim, was it Rhys Millen?

But honestly though Im still trying to figure out
1. How anyone is powersliding in a miata?
2. Where in the paddock is there enough room to powerslide?
3. Where is there enough room to powerslide in the paddock toward an official?
4. How was that person not repremanded on the spot by the official in question.
5. Why didn't the official give you the name?

I hate these riddles....

I wasn't there but have raced there and I cannot imagine the accusation. Please further explain the story as you obviously have more info than I have.

But with that said there was only one car there with enough HP to powerslide. And I heard that he was having problems with locking his brakes in the race. Maybe with his brake problems he had to pitch it sideways to stop. Anyone wanna guess who that might be? anyone? Anyone? Hint: Examine the start of the thread.

**Official Stirrer of Sh*t**

--------------------
31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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At the time of my post, I had no idea who the person was. Apparently it was the the father of the Christian boys, who was very upset after one of his sons was dq'ed after bump drafting incident deal? This has been mentioned to me a few times out here at the convention as anything related to Sm, good or bad seems to be my fault [Smile] Everyone loses their temper, apparently there was no reprimand as Mr. Christian is a good standing member and his actions were outside the norm for him, far outside from emails I recieved. Everyone gets upset, but this was no way to handle it. There were kids and people in the paddock. Perhaps, one of the boys or Mr. Christian will explain? I may not have the account of this accurate as I was not there. Just reporting stories that I have heard at the convention and curious as to what really happened. I received an email that said it was donuts and not a powerslide [Smile] In any event, I wish it didnt happen and I imagine Mr. Christian feels the same way.
Jim

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
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EAST STREET RACING

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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One more reason that SM should be banned from club racing. A bunch of hot head wanna bees that think they are above the rules......

I'm glad you are on the CRB Jim. You have a long and hard job ahead of you, but I know that you can start to change some of these negative perceptions. It's a shame one or two folks out of many hundreds cause these problems, but there are many very responsible SM drivers that donate their time and energy to the SCCA as well -- you are a great example of that.

As stated previously in this thread, the fight of bump drafting has gotten out of control. I wish this would get resolved. Nasa has figured it out (see page 2 of this thread), yet it has become a stuggle of wills in SCCA.

Can't we adopt something similar to Nasa or has this incident just made it worse for those of us choosing to race with SCCA?

Thanks!

-Bruce

--------------------
Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
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Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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As far as Bump drafting, I think I have stated previously? But in first National at Sebring in 06, I was docked 2 spots for bump drafting first offense and 3 spots for the second incident in the same race. So I went from 4th to 9th. At Hallet in 07, I went from P2 and 40 seconds ahead of p3 to p4, 2 position penalty. I hated both, disagred and was mad. But the rule is NO bump drafting. I have been given winks and nods and still do it on accoasion, but only rare ones. If I am penalized again, who can I really blame but myself?
I dont think SCCA will ever condone bump drafting. So if we do it, know it is at a risk of penalty. Just because "you" are the only guy the penalize and others weren't isnt a valid arguement anymore IMO, too many have been penalized for it now.
Jim
Jim

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Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
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2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Not to speak for Mr. Christian, But as I have raced with him that does seem out of character.

Regardless, I still can't imagine anyone being able to do donuts in the paddock at Cal Speedway and I would find it even more surprising to see Mr. Christian do it. (not that he is not able, just really seems out of character) As a sidenote, I would actually like to see him do it (not in anger though).

Jim, Not giving you a hard time, I respect and appreciate what you do, It just kind of caught me in a funny way.

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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Jim,

It's not so much allowing bump drafting as it is defining what constitutes bump drafting. Touching is not bump drafting, and should not be penalized as such. bump drafting so you can physically see movement side to side or even forward can still be considered a bump or contact that should be penalized. Nasa defined it, why can't SCCA?

It's just strange that we can touch door handles mirrors, or any other part of our cars and not be penalized, but drive under the starter stand with less than a paper width between cars and we are penalizing positions. It's just not right.

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
2010 Oregon Region Champ
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I think that seems out of character for Mr. Christian as well. I raced that weekend and remember seeing him in impound after either a race or qualifing sitting in his car reading a book. Just stuck me, because myself and everyone else was walking around pumped up talking about the past 30 minutes. Maybe he could respond and shed some light on what happened because I was there and didn't see or hear anything about it.
As far as bump drafting goes, the Cal Club R.E. wrote an interesting article in SoPac News,

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2009 SoCal SCCA SM Champion
"Only boring people get bored"

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With regards to the bumpdrafting arguement, I do not see the issue. Like "we" all agreed to at nationals, "If you don't want to be dump drafted place an X on the bumper." People will respect your choice.

It was a decision by the racers for the racers.

This doesn't seem like a novel idea from a club that is run by racers for racers. Have the racers decide and have a way for the rest to opt out. Everyones happy!

Oh wait, that's right, since the top brass didn't come up with it, then it will be illegal.

Remember for racers by racers.
JMHO

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
At the time of my post, I had no idea who the person was. Apparently it was the the father of the Christian boys, who was very upset after one of his sons was dq'ed after bump drafting incident deal? This has been mentioned to me a few times out here at the convention as anything related to Sm, good or bad seems to be my fault [Smile] Everyone loses their temper, apparently there was no reprimand as Mr. Christian is a good standing member and his actions were outside the norm for him, far outside from emails I recieved. Everyone gets upset, but this was no way to handle it. There were kids and people in the paddock. Perhaps, one of the boys or Mr. Christian will explain? I may not have the account of this accurate as I was not there. Just reporting stories that I have heard at the convention and curious as to what really happened. I received an email that said it was donuts and not a powerslide [Smile] In any event, I wish it didnt happen and I imagine Mr. Christian feels the same way.
Jim

I'll elaborate a bit for clarity. There have been several occasions in which we have raced with Cal Club and SCCA that there have been random "issues".

-I was black flagged while leading a race with 2 laps remaining on one occasion only to drive down pit lane, told to wait for a minute and then be told that they knew nothing of the flag and there was no penalty.

-While leading during an enduro last year a tech official claimed there was a fuel spill that mysteriously dissipated before anyone else could see it. (After a protest we were given a "tie" for first despite the fact we were over a minute ahead when the penalty time was removed).

-My brother was sideswiped hard on the front straightaway at Buttonwillow being pushed into the dirt for no apparent reason by Sammy Valafar. Not a word was said to him, the flagger claimed to have not seen anything and the damage was apparently not enough evidence.

At this national weekend we ran the regional events as well, and on Sunday we had our first 1,2,3 finish in the regional race. We had 13+ people from our family there cheering us on that thoroughly enjoyed the race and came down to tech to congratulate us and see the trophies handed out. Other racers congratulated us and we proceeded to pull valve covers on all three cars for tech so they could check cam gears. A tech official walked over about 10 minutes through tech and handed Austin a red slip stating he was disqualified for bump drafting. They then released the other cars from grid. My brother was deeply upset. Not only was EVERYONE bump drafting, but many of them sat there and stated to the tech official "heck i was bump drafting too". My father became very upset and I believe that in his mind this was the last straw.

I am by no stretch of the imagination condoning or saying what he did was right. I just want you to understand his state of mind. We have had many talks in the past about no longer racing with Cal Club. We have never had any issues with NASA, and overall NASA has been a much more fun racing environment which has made it even easier to see Cal Clubs flaws. So to my father this was the last straw with Cal Club. In anger he went to the open area of the tech impound paddock and started to do donuts, he did a couple and then left.

I personally would have rather left the event and never have come back to Cal Club then leave on that note. But what is done is done.

And on a side note, I didn't think you could really do smoking donuts in a miata, but apparently if you have enough revs before you drop the clutch anything is possible. [rockband]

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The following comment in no way is in support of what mr. Christian did but....


Yea, that rocks mr. christian!!!


Again not in support of what he did but to have raced with him and I too have witnessed his bookreading while I'm cleaning my underwear only speaks to his calm mild manner demeaner on the track and in the paddock.

Don't light me up on this unless you know this to be a common problem with mr. Christian.

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

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I think my brother explained the situation so i wont go any farther into it. I will say this however.

At California Speedway there were 20 local spec miata's racing in national and/or regional run groups and 5 more spec miata's from out of region; leaving a total of 25 miata's or so that weekend.

This past weekend was cal clubs second National race at Willow Springs in which only 5 Spec Miatas attended. I think this speaks volumes as to how the local spec miata community feels about Scca or more specifically Calclub at this point.

We are not going to be attending any more calclub events this year and will probably try again next year, but at this rate I dont see a future in racing with calclub any longer.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Christian:


This past weekend was cal clubs second National race at Willow Springs in which only 5 Spec Miatas attended. I think this speaks volumes as to how the local spec miata community feels about Scca or more specifically Calclub at this point.

Or.... it speaks volumes about how little interest there is when there aren't any spec miata regional races that weekend. [scratchchin]

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It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Christian:


This past weekend was cal clubs second National race at Willow Springs in which only 5 Spec Miatas attended. I think this speaks volumes as to how the local spec miata community feels about Scca or more specifically Calclub at this point.

Or.... it speaks volumes about how little interest there is when there aren't any spec miata regional races that weekend. [scratchchin]
Also true but if you take a gander at least years national race there were quite a few cars.

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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How many SoCal racers were at SCCA nationals?

Maybe it speaks of how the region is managing the happiness of its racers.

Simply looking from the outside and reading the posts, it appears that the success of the region is proportional to the amount they listen to the concerns of its racers.

Therefore if the region isn't successful they probably won't show up to nationals.

The question to ask is how many so cal racers will be at NASA nationals this year.

JMHO

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

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I think the fact that they will be held at Miller instead of Mid Ohio is the main reason most so cal SM ers will be going.

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2009 SoCal SCCA SM Champion
"Only boring people get bored"

SWDouglass Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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But last year we had 2 so cal guys at the nasa nationals in ohio and I don't think (didn't hear) we had anyone at the scca nationals.

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

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Sean,
Put the blackberry down and slowly step away.

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31st in the nation. If I could keep the car on the track and put on the oil cap I could be in the top 20.

 
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