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Author Topic: R888's tire wear concerns
Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I have emailed the Toyo program manager for the R-888 twice in the last two weeks about the issue. I even included this link and others so he could read the feedback. I have not heard from him yet. we have spoken in the past and it usually takes a few days to hear from him. I spoke with Robin last night about the contract (if there is one) with Toyo and what the terms, etc are regarding the requirement to spec the tire or if it is just a contract covering the contingency program and what SCCA has to do for advertising the Toyo brand. Unfortunately, our club operates in a screen of secrecy so we may never know the details. Without reading the contract we are all guessing as to what the options are for a new tire/manufacturer. I have spent years litigating contract issues....

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Paul McLester

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I assume that having the contract public wouldn't be good for anyone - at some point we have to trust the SCCA to do what is needed. They aware of the issue, I have been in direct contact with people there... they have in turn been in contact with Toyo. The wheels are firmly in motion.

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-Jason Saini :: Fort Worth, TX
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dtfastbear Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I just hope those wheels aren't shod with 4 session old R888's or we're all screwed... [Smile]

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Like I said in a post about the new Toyo tires last year...

quote:
"I'm glad that the NASA guys (and gals) had no complaints about the R888. This isn't NASA we are discussing. SCCA should be leading, not following.

What if NASA adopted an open shock rule... or an open fuel rule...? With this thinking, I guess SCCA would follow suit. Like a young puppy. How truly sad!

Let's get down to the nitty-gritty of this decision. Matrix... tire testing... contingency... please don't be nieve. This is all about dollars and cents for the SCCA. It has nothing to do with the membership or their input. SCCA chose the tire that would make them the most money... PERIOD. SCCA might negotiate the best price they can for the racers, but I guarantee you that they picked the tire that would make the SCCA the most money. It's always been about the money, and it always will be. No different than any other sanctioning body."

I stand by my statement. SCCA is not looking out for the membership, they're looking at the bottom line. Very sad.

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"I've got 5 kids... here there are hundreds"

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Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Tesch:
Like I said in a post about the new Toyo tires last year...

quote:
"I'm glad that the NASA guys (and gals) had no complaints about the R888. This isn't NASA we are discussing. SCCA should be leading, not following.

What if NASA adopted an open shock rule... or an open fuel rule...? With this thinking, I guess SCCA would follow suit. Like a young puppy. How truly sad!

Let's get down to the nitty-gritty of this decision. Matrix... tire testing... contingency... please don't be nieve. This is all about dollars and cents for the SCCA. It has nothing to do with the membership or their input. SCCA chose the tire that would make them the most money... PERIOD. SCCA might negotiate the best price they can for the racers, but I guarantee you that they picked the tire that would make the SCCA the most money. It's always been about the money, and it always will be. No different than any other sanctioning body."

I stand by my statement. SCCA is not looking out for the membership, they're looking at the bottom line. Very sad.
Translation: "I told you so!"

[Smile]

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Jason Holland
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Steven Holloway Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by D.B. Cutler:
For every SCCA race I've ever been to, I could just go to the huge Toyo support trailer and they had an experienced tire engineer there just waiting for people to ask questions about their products. Oh wait, that was the dream of an SCCA decision maker...

Toyo has trailers with engineers? What do they look like?

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B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Saini:
I assume that having the contract public wouldn't be good for anyone - at some point we have to trust the SCCA to do what is needed.

Either that or "the man" is trying to screw us again [Roll Eyes]

Boy a voice of reason sure is refreshing sometimes.

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
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Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Holloway:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by D.B. Cutler:
For every SCCA race I've ever been to, I could just go to the huge Toyo support trailer and they had an experienced tire engineer there just waiting for people to ask questions about their products. Oh wait, that was the dream of an SCCA decision maker...

Toyo has trailers with engineers? What do they look like?

I know plenty of Toyo Engineers, they know how to engineer a round tire into a square one. [Smile]

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Blake Clements

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quote:
Originally posted by Blake Clements:
I know plenty of Toyo Engineers, they know how to engineer a round tire into a square one. [Smile]

Ooh, that makes me a Toyo engineer. *adds to CV*

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Well I can add some information from Roebling Road National. I have about as much track time as anybody on these tires in both cold and warm temperatures. All competition has been done on 3/32" shave.

I have now run on the 888s at PBIR Double National, Sebring National, OPM's test day at Roebling Road, a test day at Road Atlanta, and the Roebling National this past weekend. I just purchased my 6th set. To be fair, one is still new and another is a rain set. That means I used 4 sets in 4 weekends. I don't think you need 2 sets per weekend but based on my experience, you will need 1 per.

I concur with the general consensus on these tires:
Good when new for 3-5 laps, then get greasy.
Pretty good for the next heat cycle.
Wear will be evident at this point.
X them.
OK for the next couple of heat cycles.
At this point you will see visible wear and they will start to lose grip.
X them.
Next 2 cycles are good for practice.
After about 6 track sessions they are toast.

I don't know if it is run time or heat cycles but when the grooves are gone, so's the grip. Yes you can run fast on them but only when they are in the sweet spot which goes away much faster than the RA-1s.

I am writing my letter now. If we put enough heat on SCCA, and they lean on Toyo, we might get a revised compound that will have some better longevity.

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Glenn Stephens // Team Traqmate // SM 41 // http://traqmate.com

Dr.Dan Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Any and all who have concerns about the R888, please email Jerry Kunzman. He has input with Toyo and he told me to have specific concerns about the 888 emailed to him. jerry@drivenasa.com. Like the one above.

After reading all these posts, he said he needs facts from testing, races and such. We in the west have not really used them yet.
Dan

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Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Iv'e been in touch with the PTB at NASA and what we need right now is hard data. Please start taking some good notes...

DOT codes, shave depth, heat cycles, time on tire, ambient temps, setup info, pressures etc. Keep a good log and if there's and issue we have some documentation rather than.. "these tires suck".

I'll be running my first set in a couple weeks. I will record as much data as I can.

When you have this data, post it here but also forward to CRB and SMAC as well as the NASA contacts...

jerry AT drivenasa.com and cc competition AT drivenasa.com

Thanks for the help!

Jason

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Jason Holland
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tahoe z Verified Driver
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hi,so many were worried with hooiers it would cost too much!!!!!!!!!!!! i have raced ita with them and they will look cheap to 888s,at least they work the same every time and they last just fine!scca needs to fix NOW.if not, i think the we need to boycott races.toyo needs to step up now.you all bitch about hot gas, and what it costs, and this is a much greater cost.i can get 4 weekends out of hoosiers and win,much cheaper!

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kim willcox

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I can do one more NASA event (even though the tires I have will make it through the season) before I have to change to the R888's, but after reading this, I'm not sure what to do. I was planning on buying a set of the R888's and pickign them up at the March event, but now I'm not sure what to do. I may have to stop running SM and run in PT because of this. I cannot afford to buy a set of tires for every event

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Juan Pineda Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I haven't seen graining mentioned here. Graining will cause accelerated wear. The first set of 888's I ran grained and wore poorly.

I found 888's to get better with use. My best lap time, a 2:08 at thunderhill (no happy gas or anything like that) came on the session just before the tires corded. I run 38-39 psi hot.

Juan

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luckymiata76
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Contacted my Board of Director and he was aware of the situation. He said that the tire situation is under review.

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Jeff Luckritz
#76

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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Juan, on what heat cycle did they cord ? And when did you buy the first and recent set, and at what ambient temps did the grain?

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
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Does anyone know if any of the WCTC teams have tested this year on the R888? Any significant changes in wear from last year?

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quote:
Originally posted by Gearhead:
Well I can add some information from Roebling Road National. I have about as much track time as anybody on these tires in both cold and warm temperatures. All competition has been done on 3/32" shave.

I have now run on the 888s at PBIR Double National, Sebring National, OPM's test day at Roebling Road, a test day at Road Atlanta, and the Roebling National this past weekend. I just purchased my 6th set. To be fair, one is still new and another is a rain set. That means I used 4 sets in 4 weekends. I don't think you need 2 sets per weekend but based on my experience, you will need 1 per.

I concur with the general consensus on these tires:
Good when new for 3-5 laps, then get greasy.
Pretty good for the next heat cycle.
Wear will be evident at this point.
X them.
OK for the next couple of heat cycles.
At this point you will see visible wear and they will start to lose grip.
X them.
Next 2 cycles are good for practice.
After about 6 track sessions they are toast.

I don't know if it is run time or heat cycles but when the grooves are gone, so's the grip. Yes you can run fast on them but only when they are in the sweet spot which goes away much faster than the RA-1s.

I am writing my letter now. If we put enough heat on SCCA, and they lean on Toyo, we might get a revised compound that will have some better longevity.

Those of us who have used 888's very sparingly or not at all certainly appreciate the effort to address the problem put forth by those that have used the tires and have gathered some data. Most of us are not yet in a position to report or conclude anything.

IMO we were very fortunate with the RA-1. Very good tire in terms of useful life and consistency. I don't know if there is a tire in the market now that can match that performance. Anything else I've used in the past had a lesser sweet spot. Hopefully there is a real and immediate solution to what sounds like a significant problem. Even if there is, we might be entering an era where tire management is a greater challenge and tire life is decreased.

Anyone know if the RA-1 is still in production?

B Wilson Verified Driver Series Champ
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Casey, just thinking maybe best to start a new facts only thread that can be used to collect data from those willing to share.

DOT codes, shave depth, heat cycles, time on tire, ambient temps, setup info, pressures.

That way we can use this thread to discuss. Much easier for SCCA folks toyo folks to get quick information that way???

-bw

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Bruce Wilson
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Casey Z Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Casey, just thinking maybe best to start a new facts only thread that can be used to collect data from those willing to share.

DOT codes, shave depth, heat cycles, time on tire, ambient temps, setup info, pressures.

That way we can use this thread to discuss. Much easier for SCCA folks toyo folks to get quick information that way???

-bw

Go for it, that is good with me. Just looking for other data points to try to draw a line through. I know they had a lot of experience with them and while they weren't crazy about them, they made them work. But, I think they used one set per weekend too. Either way, they may have some good data to share. I am sure the BOD will be looking into that as well.

On that note, I got an immediate response from Lisa (MidDiv BOD member) to my note to the CRB last night. She said they were aware of the issue and are "taking a hard look at it." That made me feel a bit better. I know she is a racer at heart and understands where we are coming from.

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Z Brothers Racing / East Street Auto

Casey Z - 1.6 Kettle
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John Mueller Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom Sager:
Anyone know if the RA-1 is still in production?

I spoke with a Associate Toyo Motorsport Dealer today to see what the supply of RA-1's were for the near future... Now, mind you this is one vendors knowledge/perspective so don't take it as gospel...

He said the plan to discontinue RA-1 production was set for December 08, it was scrapped and they are still being manufactured. He believes this problem will keep them in production for a while... Remember, this is SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, NOT MINE (though I am hopeful).

He said Spec 944 are also having the same problems as us but the fast & heavy cars (Vettes & Vipers) are loving the 888's. I've also heard the NASA Honda Challenge guys like them too. Hmmmm, maybe we're going too slow [duck]

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quote:
Originally posted by John Mueller:
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Sager:
Anyone know if the RA-1 is still in production?

I spoke with a Associate Toyo Motorsport Dealer today to see what the supply of RA-1's were for the near future... Now, mind you this is one vendors knowledge/perspective so don't take it as gospel...

He said the plan to discontinue RA-1 production was set for December 08, it was scrapped and they are still being manufactured. He believes this problem will keep them in production for a while... Remember, this is SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION, NOT MINE (though I am hopeful).

He said Spec 944 are also having the same problems as us but the fast & heavy cars (Vettes & Vipers) are loving the 888's. I've also heard the NASA Honda Challenge guys like them too. Hmmmm, maybe we're going too slow [duck]

Sounds like all we need to do is add 300 pounds and get rid of restrictor plates and we'll be OK.

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quote:
Originally posted by B Wilson:
Juan, on what heat cycle did they cord ? And when did you buy the first and recent set, and at what ambient temps did the grain?

Hey Bruce, I got 330 minutes of run time over 3 1/2 test days out of that first set. I probably ran 18 sessions on them before cording. I did rotate some, but not optimally, as I was leaving the tires on the same corners at first to get a good reading on wear.

This testing was over November and December where temps were around 50 degrees, maybe high 40's, for all the sessions including the first day when they grained. The tires were purchased in November. Shaved to 4/32".

The latest set of tires was purchased in January. I don't have very good usage information on them, exept that they did not grain. I took care to break them in gently. Also they were shaved to 3/32".

-juan

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www.ArtOfRoadRacing.com Race Craft Clinic - Thunderhill - 30 Jan 2011

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New thread for data only can be found here http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/4299.html#000000

Carry on the discussion in this thread. Just wanted to make sure everyone knows where to post data.

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motorrock
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I believe we have an aggrement with Toyo for the next three years. Would it not be easier to swith to a different Toyo, like the RA1, than breaking away from Toyo completely.

Pat

If there were any RA-1's left....

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I just got an email from Toyo stating that they are aware of our concerns in Spec Miata and are looking into the matter.

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Paul McLester

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Has anyone tried the super high pressures that some in other (albeit heavier) cars are recommending for the ate-ate-ate? While it seems insane to me, some are recommending starting at between 40 and 44 COLD with hot pressures in the high 40's.

When Juan and I tested a set earlier this year, we tried 42-44 hot (and hated it) but didn't go higher.

Just wondering...

Dean

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NASA Nor Cal SM series Director
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quote:
Originally posted by motorrock:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I believe we have an aggrement with Toyo for the next three years. Would it not be easier to swith to a different Toyo, like the RA1, than breaking away from Toyo completely.

Pat

If there were any RA-1's left....

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Here is one suggestion from someone who has done a LOT of temperature testing at TWS. As Merv noted I live (actually) 8 miles from the track, teach out there during DE events and am on the short list for when they need someone to take VIPs on a few laps. Having said that, I'm not a top driver. I certainly know the track and can tell the difference between my own screw ups and those coming from the car (tires, alignment...).

About a year ago I started tinkering with cold tire temps on the RA1s during DE Events. Now unfortunately I do not have a lap timer in the car, so this part of the discussion is somewhat subjective. However, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that lower cold temperatures produced better results. Now this may be because of my driving style, I'm not smart enough to answer that - (a Ph.D. in psychology is absolutely useless in communicating with a car!).

So, I was out there this weekend from Thursday through Sunday. Heat cycled two new sets of 888s on Thursday. As Merv noted in his post we swapped sets at nearly nearly  every session. Oh mine all started at 4/32 and I'm in a '99. During Friday I don't think I ever got under a 2:06. Now, I'm sure part of that was getting use to a new tire and indeed "running with the big boys".

I finally told Merv about my experiences with testing cold temps on the RA1s and we went down in cold pressures. My Sat qual was 205.78 and race was 205.73. On Sunday I actually started the race with 27.5 in the back and 30 in the front. Qual was 204.93 and race 204.50.

Merv was nice enough to do a comparison and I had the greatest improvement of the whole field from Sat to Sun - 1.2 seconds. Obviously there is no way to know what contributed to the improvement. However, I can say this, my experience was that when I was starting with 32 cold I'd get 4 good laps. At 28 cold I would get at least 8 good laps.

Now, having said that, I still think the tire suxs. I normally have no problem with turn 6, but I would love to know if the driver who was behind me on Sunday when I literally went from opposite lock to opposite lock and still kept it on the hard stuff had a camera in his car. It was probably either Steven Wolff, William Keeling or Curtis Henscheid. I have the view from inside my car, but I'd love to see what it actually looked like from outside.

I still have two good sets of RA1s and had talked to John Phillips about doing a comparison in ITS at the Canyon, but have since decided not to go up there. The main problem with that comparison is that it would be a new track tome and it would be difficult to determine why any differences were occurring. I can probably still do the same comparison at TMS in May if I go ITS, and include Hoosiers in the comparison since I have a set of those mounted up as well. This would be a better comparisons since I have run TMS a number of times.

I think it would be a huge mistake to make Hoosiers the spec tire. Of course they are faster. I heat cycled them at TWS during the last DE and I did not need a stop watch to know (as John Phillips said to me) - they really make you think you can drive. BUT, even though they don't have to be shaved a set delivered was $914.14 not including mounting.

I never have understood why maximizing speed is an issue in this class. What difference would it make if the best shoe in the land could only do a 205 at TWS if the tires were responsibly priced and would wear. I'd rather use a $75 tire and have to buy twice as many than a $165 tire. I thought the whole idea was that the best drivers would still be the best drivers no matter what shoes the car is wearing. Lets go for economics. Ah, but I forget - you guys up front want the contingency $, and that only comes with a sponsorship arrangement.

Okay, I've had my say. My suggestion is give the lower cold pressures a try and see if it helps you.

I would like to publicly thank Merv for being an unbelievable crew for the weekend. Some of you may know that I got sandwiched between two spinning cars in turn 3 on Sat - had absolutely no where to go - no blame - just racing. It bent the upper Right A arm as well as the bolt AND the driver side inner tie rod. (Oh, and just as a friendly heads up to '99 owners - the inner tie rods on the left and right ARE NOT the same regardless of what the microfiche says and it took me two hours about 6 months ago to convince Mazda Motor Sports that there HAD to be two part numbers - if you want them send me a PM and I'll give you the part numbers.

Despite the fact that I probably have a bent sub frame, Merv was smart enough to know how to compensate using the PAX side caster for me to run faster on Sunday than on Sat.

--------------------
Bob Reinhardt

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Bob
You should be able to buy Hoosiers at the track for $580 a set plus M&B.You have to ask for the SM 205 tire other wise you pay the steep price.

Hope you got a reach around for the $914.14

Tom

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hmmm ... this has the beginings of a solution.

fast foward a month or two from today and Toyo will still be in the 'reviewing all the data submitted' process concerning the 888. No solution to the immediate problem while racers continue to realise economic pain by being forced to race exclusively on the 888. Meanwhile, SCCA BOD is incapable of dealing with the legal quagmire of cancelling/modifying an exclusive use agreement with all its financial ramifications (imagine all the tire distributors nationwide that purchased 888 inventory, who are they then going to sell the 888 to ?)
Possible solution ; while understanding the basic premise that Toyo corporate has no interest in selling RA-1's any longer, there may be the chance to keep it in the corporate family. Only someone like Jerry Kunzman of NASA has the connections/pull/power to possibly make it happen. SCCA will inevitably again follow whatever new deal NASA negotiates with TOYO as it will be in the best interests of the class. As Jason says above, also email Jerry with your data and concerns. If he sees it will negatively affect NASA's bottom line there will be a change done. And, SCCA will follow. Bet on it.
As to the availability of the beloved, original (pre 2005) RA-1 tire, it is alive and well, living under the guise as the NITTO NT01 tire.
Anyone who has raced the NT01 in the IT classes will tell you. Decent grip, dead consistant, forever long lasting, good to the last drop, even raceable at the cords without losing any grip.
hmmm ... sounds like the original RA-1 to me. Sounds like a great Spec Miata spec tire, given that Toyo is the parent company of NITTO.
Just throwing my usual cynical pragmatic fodder into the fire as this topic was slowing down a bit. Back to view only mode ...
Carlos G.

soupy
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This still isn't a purple thing but why do so many people keep coming up with this $225+ price when we keep telling you the price for a SM is $155ish?
Having said that, $914 for 4 hoosiers is still cheaper that $146 for 8 toyos.

--------------------
Charlie Campbell
Race Engineering
carbotech brakes

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If there is a change, it should go to the next manufacture in the tire test. They paid there money and should have a shot at it.Give it a year and see what happens.

Tom

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Very easy solution for now. Leave Regionals the way the Book is written. That's where most SMs with the smaller budgets are anyway. 888s for Nationals until they come up with an answer.

--------------------
Charlie Campbell
Race Engineering
carbotech brakes

skrzastek
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I just finished talking to a friend of mine who has been running a Spec Boxster. He has been through 3 sets of them, and he is getting 4-5 weekend out of them (so where 3-4 day events). His car is around 2400lbs and 195hp and he runs the tires at full tread. I'm not sure why the SM crowd is going through them so fast. I'll give him another call to figure out what tire pressures he is running.

--------------------
#91 SSM

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quote:
Originally posted by soupy:
Very easy solution for now. Leave Regionals the way the Book is written. That's where most SMs with the smaller budgets are anyway. 888s for Nationals until they come up with an answer.

Wow, ok, so now it is a "smaller budget" thing to be able to run National races because the spec tire chosen wears out 4X faster than the previous tire? Riiiiiiiiiight.

--------------------
Mike Bell
http://www.bns-racing.com/sm.jpg

TimBuck Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
I'll believe it when I believe it.

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quote:
Originally posted by soupy:
This still isn't a purple thing but why do so many people keep coming up with this $225+ price when we keep telling you the price for a SM is $155ish?
Having said that, $914 for 4 hoosiers is still cheaper that $146 for 8 toyos.

People continually confuse the SM205 with either the R6 or the A6 tires, both of which are more $$$ than the SM Hoosier.

--------------------
Tim Buck

MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development
Mazda North American Operations
phone (800) 435-2508
fax (949) 222-2650

zoom-zoom!

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quote:
Originally posted by skrzastek:
I just finished talking to a friend of mine who has been running a Spec Boxster. He has been through 3 sets of them, and he is getting 4-5 weekend out of them (so where 3-4 day events). His car is around 2400lbs and 195hp and he runs the tires at full tread. I'm not sure why the SM crowd is going through them so fast. I'll give him another call to figure out what tire pressures he is running.

Tire construction from one size to another within the same model of tire can vary a lot. Compound, sidewall construction, etc...

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Higher horsepower cars don't slide around like SM 'momentum' cars, therefore I'm sure they are getting better life out of the R888's. It's difficult to drive a Miata fast without sliding it just a little bit.

I've spoken with representatives of the SCCA, and heard from them that people at Toyo are aware of this. Everyone involved wants the same outcome, a long-lasting, economical tire for SM.

Keep submitting your data and experiences with the tires, to both the CRB, SMAC and on the other thread here. I will try to see if we can get a contact email at Toyo to direct this data/experience to.

--------------------
-Jason Saini :: Fort Worth, TX
-Team MER :: 2007 MX-5 Cup Champion
-2008 SPEED TC Rookie of the Year!
-Based at Motorsport Ranch
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Jason I sent this thread to the racing program manager for Toyo. He emailed me and told me they are aware of the concerns and are looking into them.

--------------------
Paul McLester

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Paul and Jason,

While you have them on the line, ask them where the Toyo truck and engineers were last weekend? I thought they promised us some support as part of the deal... the FIRST big Double National of the year would have been a smart one to attend.
[censored]

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

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They weren't at PBIR Double National in January or Sebring. We get service from Appalachian (their trailer is covered in Hoosier logos). [Smash]

--------------------
Paul McLester

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quote:
Originally posted by soupy:
Very easy solution for now. Leave Regionals the way the Book is written. That's where most SMs with the smaller budgets are anyway. 888s for Nationals until they come up with an answer.

Charlie for President!

Most of you already knew where I stand on this subject.

[thumbsup] [This looks like a Purple Graemlin to me]

Jerry

--------------------
Just driving SM until the F-1 car is ready.

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V8, nice! And good for you too!

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Letter sent to CRB>>..

--------------------
Daniel Mairani DDS...still here, just faster.
http://www.DanielMairanidds.com

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quote:
Originally posted by Jerry Cabe:
quote:
Originally posted by soupy:
Very easy solution for now. Leave Regionals the way the Book is written. That's where most SMs with the smaller budgets are anyway. 888s for Nationals until they come up with an answer.

Charlie for President!

Most of you already knew where I stand on this subject.

[thumbsup] [This looks like a Purple Graemlin to me]

Jerry

You don't have to stand, you can sit.

--------------------
All this has happened before, and will happen again

soupy
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Mike, I think you misunderstand what I said.
I think as a general rule the drivers with less of a budget run regionals not nationals.

--------------------
Charlie Campbell
Race Engineering
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As area 12 Director we only became aware of the 888 concerns after TWS. The data from the test and the early races did not elicit this response to the 888 wear. We are aware of the issue and Toyo is being consulted - more than that I can't tell you.

I will reply to one post above that did tick me off - it didn't matter which tire was picked for this year as far as income for the SCCA went, the contingency admin fee was the same for any brand and they knew that going into the test. The only financial difference was the large one between the Toyo and the other brand in competitor contingency and that swayed the deal in my book. Maybe the RA1 would have been the safe choice but it seemed at the time to be on its way out and NASA had already gone 888
Looks like our hesitation to mandate it for regionals is a good thing in hindsight!
Phil

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Phil

It would be nice if the SARRC went by the regional rule for tires since most of the regions in our div run the SARRC with a regional on the same weekend. Thanks for your help.

--------------------
Paul McLester

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Click here for setup tips on Toyo R888s!

Click here to see why Hoosiers are the best tire for SM!

--------------------
Visit the Midland City Arts Festival!

 
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