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Author Topic: 1.6 VS 1.8
Ron Scott
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OK we are new to this and looking to buy a car. I have searched the forums and it looks like a while since it has been discussed.

Here is my question:
For a driver that is under 180lbs is there any
distinct advantage that one car has over the other?
I know the 99-2000 is superior but other than those 2 years is there any others that are preffered or should be avoided?

Is the 1.6 competitive with the 1.8?

Anything in particular that should be paid close attention too when purchasing a used SM for SCCA?

We will be looking to buy a car that has already been in competition.

Thanks
Ron

Jerret Gerber
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Region: Central
Car #: 9
Year : 1996
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Well Ron I'm in my second year of racing scca and we did some research on the sm and we came up with that the '95 was as good as any. They are competitive both at the shorter more technical tracks(black hawk farms) and the bigger tracks(road america). I myself weigh in at 145lbs. The car has to weigh 2385 after racing. It has the 1.8. At the runoffs entry list 24 of the 41 are 99 or newer. 7 of us have 94-97's. The rest are the early 90's.

Dennis Bize Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 1991
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Where are you planning to run Ron?

--------------------
BSI RACING

CAVINYC.COM

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 92
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If I had to build a new car right now, under the current rules it would for sure be a 1999.

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

caesss Verified Driver
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Car #: 49
Year : 90
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I think you'll be fine in either car.

I've been running a 90 for two years but thinking of switching to a 99 but only because of weight issues in my current car (or the driver) but we are waiting to see how the rules change for next year.

I'm 200 lbs and I was not able to take advantage of the weight reduction benefit this season. There are lots of front runners running 99's but I've also seen some fast guys running on 90's.

Some may debate, torque advantages vs. top end, easier to drive vs. more forgiving.....I think they are both very close to even now.

If you are new, I wouldn't buy anything over $15K. You can get some great deals for $12K. I wouldn't worry too much about a motor either. Get something good enough and drive the wheels off it. If you get the 90, you'll end up upgrading your diff to the 1.8 soon, or get one that has it already. That is worth it for sure.
Buy one that offers you some extra goodies...spares, wheels, tires, etc.

--------------------
Caesar Vielmas
YozoY.com | blu27.com

Dusty Bottoms Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
99 all the way!

Region: Lone Star
Year : 1990
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I would not build a 1.6 with the 1.8 diff if I wanted to be competitive.

--------------------
"Your victory is tainted! Asterisk! Asterisk!!!"--Lisa Simpson

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

Region: NWR / Oregon
Car #: 88
Year : 95
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See what others are running in your region. If evryone is running a 1.6 or a 1.8, when you have a mechanical problem it's going to be easier to find the right spares at the track and knowledgeable help to fix the issue.

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

Gibscreen Verified Driver Series Champ
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Car #: 23
Year : 1995
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quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:
I would not build a 1.6 with the 1.8 diff if I wanted to be competitive.

Do you believe it's the performance or weight that makes using the Torsen less competitive?

--------------------
Rob Gibson
RJ Racing
2010 NASA Nationals TTE Champion
2008/2009 WERC Champion
2007 NASA SoCal SM Champion
rjracing.net
Weekend-Racer.com

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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quote:
Originally posted by Gibscreen:
quote:
Originally posted by Antonio Garza:
I would not build a 1.6 with the 1.8 diff if I wanted to be competitive.

Do you believe it's the performance or weight that makes using the Torsen less competitive?
yes.

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Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Jerret Gerber
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Car #: 9
Year : 1996
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Ron we built our car from ground up. Total investment was around 14000. Motor has 113000 miles and I have run 2:46.5 at road america and 1:23.3 at Blackhawk farms, and I am still learning this raod course thing. Dave at advanced auto has a 1999 for around 15000. race ready. It is fast.

Ron Scott
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Thanks for all the help...
So if I understand this correctly, possibly a rules adjustment for the cars with the perceived advantage? Would they most likely put weight on it?
Is SCCA pretty good about getting it out in time (not like in the morning drivers meeting)?

We're in North East Ohio....Nelsons,Mid Ohio,Beaverun,Gingerman,VIR,Summit Point,Pocono,Watkins Glenn...anywhere within a 6 hour drive or so from Cleveland....have to deal with college next year so that could throw a wrench in everything....

Bottom line a 90's 1.6 car will be competitive?
What are the specifics that make a 99 superior?
Pat do you race one of these? Going to the Robo?

Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
Overdog Driver

Region: Houston; SWDIV
Car #: 15
Year : 99
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Ron,

SCCA rules are stable. They are not going to make an adjustment in the morning driver's meeting. They are communicated well before they take effect in either the rules (GCR) or an addendum (Fastrack; monthly document). I would say typically you have a minimum of two months notice on changes.

In regards to the competative question, it depend on your locals tracks (I have only been to Mid-Ohio on your list) to some degree and your skill. Nationwide, I think the 1.6L is very competative when looking across all the races. I am sure at some track it might even be advantaged, just like at some track the 99 has the advantage.

I have got access to both. I race better in the 99, but post a faster lap in the 1.6L. For my skill and style, I like the torque of the larger motor.

--------------------
James York


sponsored by:
Stan's Auto Center, Lafayette LA
powered by:
East Street Racing, Memphis TN
set up guru:
Gilfus Racing, Austin TX

Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

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'99 seems to be a better car for "unnatural acts" that are necessary when running through traffic and nose to tail. For a 3-4 carlength difference mano-a-mano battle, it's a wash. As soon as fur starts flying the 1.6 is less forgiving. I would (buy, not build) a '99 with a pedigree if I were going to sell my current Midiv champion, 4th place two years in a row at the sprints, 1.6l. But that won't happen so I'm going to keep it. [Smile]

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Jerret Gerber
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Car #: 9
Year : 1996
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I agree with rich, my 95 does great and I only got the 2 yrs of road racing under my belt and have run fairly competitive everywhere we run. No national wins yet but several regional wins, with my first year winning the central division champ in smt and 5th in sm. Finished 14th in central division national points 2008. This year was leading both sm and smt regional but stopped running reg and concentrated on national. Finished 8th and qualified for first ever runoffs with 15 points. Good luck with your search

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Year : 92
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Scott:
Thanks for all the help...
So if I understand this correctly, possibly a rules adjustment for the cars with the perceived advantage? Would they most likely put weight on it?
Is SCCA pretty good about getting it out in time (not like in the morning drivers meeting)?

We're in North East Ohio....Nelsons,Mid Ohio,Beaverun,Gingerman,VIR,Summit Point,Pocono,Watkins Glenn...anywhere within a 6 hour drive or so from Cleveland....have to deal with college next year so that could throw a wrench in everything....

Bottom line a 90's 1.6 car will be competitive?
What are the specifics that make a 99 superior?
Pat do you race one of these? Going to the Robo?

You will be competitive with a 1.6 and probably a little cheaper to build.

99 seem to have advantages off the corners and long uphill climbs as they have more torque.

I will be going to the Robo Pong as a spectator only, that is a fun race to watch.

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

davecarama Verified Driver
Member

Region: NE
Year : Blue 1997 & Red 1992
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Well, I have had a 1.6 (92) and a 1.8 (95 and 97) all were fun cars and all noticably different (95 and 97 differences were smaller).

My $.02
there are more 1.6 cars, so when you break a pulley, an injector goes bad, you need some rotors, pads, etc... there are more cars to loot from at night after everyone goes to bed... that was a joke, you should ask first, then steal from them if they say no. [Wink]

My point is get what there are more of so you have a fall back when the XXX breaks and you left your XXX on your work bench at home.

Dave

   

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