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Author Topic: 2010 Competition adjustments and Data Reports
Chris70 Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Region: NER
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Year : 1994
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Jim
Nice to see some common sense. Keep it up.

Be safe
Have fun
Be fast

--------------------
"Talent is often perseverance in disguise"

Brian Cates
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Time is money [Wink]

These days I'm short on both [yep]

KG
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Formula Ford has all their motor specs in the GCR yet no front runner builds his own motors. They use Pro motors for a reason. If someone runs a homebuilt that produces big numbers it gets protested pure and simple.

They got a step by step book written by a former top bulder. web page
Regional guys use it.

When I raced against Michael Andretti we all said he was fast because of his genes. The joke was we meant "his jeans" because that is where he kept his wallet.

Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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Car #: 8
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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
SM isn't going anywhere. We just might lose the 1.6L cars. Big Whoop.

WOW I feel the love [Frown]

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

TexasHammer
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Car #: 02
Year : 1991
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What I take from all this data collection and analysis is this: The 1.6l car is a real driver's car and the 99 is for beginners. [scratchchin] [thumbsup]

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
SM isn't going anywhere. We just might lose the 1.6L cars. Big Whoop.

WOW I feel the love [Frown]
If all the 1.6 drivers elect to move on to greener pastures in SSM, I maintain that it's not a disaster, and the best class for them won.

I am not saying I want 1.6L cars dropped from SM. Please consider the context of the post you are quoting (shown below).

quote:
Originally posted by Rob Burgoon:
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Cates:


The problem that I have with SSM, (Not in the DC region, due to car counts) is that if newcomers start to believe that SSM is much cheaper to run than SM, then SM car counts will go down and this great class we call SM will fade away like so many other SCCA classes.

Brian

SM isn't going anywhere. We just might lose the 1.6L cars. Big Whoop.

--------------------
It really makes my week when nobody crashes into me.

JIM DANIELS
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quote:
Originally posted by KG:
Formula Ford has all their motor specs in the GCR yet no front runner builds his own motors. They use Pro motors for a reason. If someone runs a homebuilt that produces big numbers it gets protested pure and simple.

They got a step by step book written by a former top bulder. web page
Regional guys use it.

When I raced against Michael Andretti we all said he was fast because of his genes. The joke was we meant "his jeans" because that is where he kept his wallet.

Assuming that a Quicksilver, Noble, Sunbelt, Comptech or Chapman delivered is the unit raced is just that, an assumption. Last I looked those motors are not sealed either. Having bought motors from all of the above (I've owned a few cars and raced against a few folks myself) I can say the word "cover" comes to mind. Cover meaning buy one and it just happens to last a very long time..... The sticker sure looks good though.... [Razz]

I'm no pro motor builder and few in this class were before there was a class. I have built motors from GT1 on down as a home builder. How the power is made is no "real" secret in SM (head flow, plunge cuts etc...) and anyone can do it. Yes you might have to flow a few heads and tinker and surely you have to get a machine shop partner. This aint E production or GT3 you know.

The same hype that sells cars sells motors, but its just that, hype at this level. What you are paying for is the time should you choice to not use yours. Otherwise, we would not have as many different builders in the top 5 as we do, cannot be that much of a "pro" thing in SM.

2 cents for the noobs out there.

Mr. Sargis, who does your motors [Wink]

JIM DANIELS
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian Cates:
Time is money [Wink]

These days I'm short on both [yep]

A real post I can relate to!!

Dwayne Hoover Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:

8. I know toe is checked, with strings or with toe plates?

Well duh ... telescoping pointer between lower control arm and subframe bolt! [Wink]

--------------------
Visit the Midland City Arts Festival!

breathesfire Verified Driver
flirting with disaster

Region: South Jersey
Year : 91
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Wow, this thread has gone off topic! Fortunately I have a story that relates to both the original and tangent subject:

I drive a bare bones WDC region sealed 1.6 SSM. The engine has 85k miles (2k track miles) and the engine builder is Mazda. I have the class spec’d Mazdacomp exhaust and a drop-in air filter in the mandatory stock air box. All of the stock engine parts are original to the car (no blueprinting, etc). Ed York was able to tune the motor to the class horsepower limit, but in his opinion no further tuning would yield additional power.

Shortly after the runoffs, at a local regional race, I had the opportunity to share the front row with a 99 runoffs competitor that finished in front of all but two 1.6’s. At the green flag drop, we went WOT almost simultaneously, with a slight advantage to the 99. Our shift points were fairly synchronized (no pun intended), yet I was able to pull a fender length on the 99 by turn one! I was so shocked by this that I braked early and gave the corner to the 99, because honestly I had no plan for this scenario! After the race, I weighed my car at 2286 lb. The 99 driver was just as shocked by this. Naturally this is just one data point with several variables, but it sure caused me to question the “stump pulling 99 torque” that all the 1.6 guys are complaining about.

Back to the original topic: I reviewed the runoffs data reports and was disappointed by one glaring omission: a comparison of minimum corner speeds of the various cars. This information can speak volumes about the differences between the cars. However the DL1’s GPS speed can be dubious in corners if it doesn’t get a good satellite lock.

Pete Maerz

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Dont know whos car, but it had to be 14th or further back, not represenative of any of the top 99 cars

pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
Dont know whos car, but it had to be 14th or further back, not represenative of any of the top 99 cars

pat

Hmm, well Sandlin was P15 in my spare car that Lamb was on pole at Nasa Champs with? [Big Grin] [duck]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I was getting 121 but then found out the correction factor was the Standard. When we switched over to SAE it was 2-3 less. I guess the SAE is what most use. I guess I have a little more work to do.

thanks

pat

I guess I brought a knife to a gun fight,I only have 115hp [banghead]

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I was getting 121 but then found out the correction factor was the Standard. When we switched over to SAE it was 2-3 less. I guess the SAE is what most use. I guess I have a little more work to do.

thanks

pat

I guess I brought a knife to a gun fight,I only have 115hp [banghead]
Thats alright Kuch, the 99 drivers in the know say we are underprepped also. [Mad]

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
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Year : 1990/99
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I don't know! When I drive My 1.6 I complain that it needs help but when I drive my 99 I think the 1.6 are to fast. I can't even make myself happy. [Smile]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
Posts: 788
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quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I was getting 121 but then found out the correction factor was the Standard. When we switched over to SAE it was 2-3 less. I guess the SAE is what most use. I guess I have a little more work to do.

thanks

pat

I guess I brought a knife to a gun fight,I only have 115hp [banghead]
115hp? Are you running Autocross? [yep]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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I don't know but I have to decide what I'm going to do for next year.That was my first time at the track so I guess running 49s with a 115hp and first time there not to bad!

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamie Tucker:
I can't even make myself happy. [Smile]

Jamie....old age will do that to you! [rolling on floor laughin]

--------------------
Paul McLester

Cliffy Chains
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Lets settle this - Jamie has a portable Dyno, he can take it to the Jan National event, be a man step up and dyno the car, no AF, just HP and TQ numbers.

I think that all will be shocked by what we find:

1. There are some SM's making 125+
2. There are some 1.6L making 123+
3. The top 5 cars will be only 1 or 2 of those elite high hp ones
4. Setup will be credited to the other 3 cars
5. Everyone can stop thinking the guys next to you has 140+
6. Last, Everyone will see I AM DOWN ON POWER !!!

Get everyone to chip in XX amount for the dyno pull and give the Highest HP driver 20%, this way no sandbagging.

My money is on "Rockstar" RRP in the Teletubbie green car. [Wink] [thumbsup]

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Cliff....by down on power what do you mean....121 instead of 123? [shame]

--------------------
Paul McLester

Cliffy Chains
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Maybe give ME, I mean the lowest HP car an "attaboy" prize like a 6 pack of beer!!!!

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Give 20% of the money to the lowest hp car and I will put mine on the dyno! [yep]

--------------------
Paul McLester

Cliffy Chains
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Lets check with "Merlin" to see if he can come down off his throne to operate the dyno... [Big Grin]

He is the king of Sebring afterall.... [laughing]

--------------------
BDR Motorsports, Autotechnik
Cliff Blanchard
Down on power 1.6
Sluggish overweight 99'

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Merlin is busy playing with his wand making himself happy! [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin]

--------------------
Paul McLester

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
Merlin is busy playing with his wand making himself happy! [rolling on floor laughin] [rolling on floor laughin]

Its mine and I will wash it as fast as I want too!!! And as long too!! [yep]
All kidding a side if people want me to bring my dyno I will do it for the cost of fuel and beer. If we have 20 cars it would be $15 per car. If some one wants to tune their 99; I mean 1.6, than $30. I can assure you that what you will see is that the cars are a lot closer than you think and in some cases you are getting beat by cars with less power. Lets do it!! Drago I don't know if we can put your car on the dyno because it is only rated for 2000 HP but everyone else is welcome. [Eek!]

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

JIM DANIELS
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quote:
Originally posted by Cliff BDR:
Lets settle this - Jamie has a portable Dyno, he can take it to the Jan National event, be a man step up and dyno the car, no AF, just HP and TQ numbers.

I think that all will be shocked by what we find:

1. There are some SM's making 125+
2. There are some 1.6L making 123+
3. The top 5 cars will be only 1 or 2 of those elite high hp ones
4. Setup will be credited to the other 3 cars
5. Everyone can stop thinking the guys next to you has 140+
6. Last, Everyone will see I AM DOWN ON POWER !!!

Get everyone to chip in XX amount for the dyno pull and give the Highest HP driver 20%, this way no sandbagging.

My money is on "Rockstar" RRP in the Teletubbie green car. [Wink] [thumbsup]

Needs to be one more category though.

- There are some, legal, SMs making 130+

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Jamie and Cliff have the right idea. Thanks to Jamie's generosity we will have a chance to seriously compare cars on the dyno and then see the results of the driving, etc on the track the same weekend. [thumbsup]

--------------------
Paul McLester

CP Verified Driver
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Take notes on who chooses not to make a pull or mysteriously can't be located in the paddock all weekend.

--------------------
-Cy
Supported by LTD Racing & Speed Shack - New England's Premier Auto Accessory Store
Rt1 AutoMile - Norwood, MA
http://www.speedshackonline.com

Scott Zetterstrom Verified Driver
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Sounds like you guys are going to try SSM for a weekend. [rolling on floor laughin] [duck]

--------------------
#13 SSM
ME Solutions LLC
Windsor Customs Racing
PBC Automotive

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Zetterstrom:
Sounds like you guys are going to try SSM for a weekend. [rolling on floor laughin] [duck]

Nah, most of the cars there will be within 5 hp [Smile] , well except Chips [flamed]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Blake Clements Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:
quote:
Originally posted by Cliff BDR:
Lets settle this - Jamie has a portable Dyno, he can take it to the Jan National event, be a man step up and dyno the car, no AF, just HP and TQ numbers.

I think that all will be shocked by what we find:

1. There are some SM's making 125+
2. There are some 1.6L making 123+
3. The top 5 cars will be only 1 or 2 of those elite high hp ones
4. Setup will be credited to the other 3 cars
5. Everyone can stop thinking the guys next to you has 140+
6. Last, Everyone will see I AM DOWN ON POWER !!!

Get everyone to chip in XX amount for the dyno pull and give the Highest HP driver 20%, this way no sandbagging.

My money is on "Rockstar" RRP in the Teletubbie green car. [Wink] [thumbsup]

Needs to be one more category though.

- There are some, legal, SMs making 130+

I'll buy, if you show me which one.... [Big Grin]

--------------------
Blake Clements

PhillipsRacePrep/SP Induction Systems/East Street Racing/MiataCage.com/Carbotech/WBR Graphics

www.blakeclements.com

Johnny D Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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You guys should go back and read this before you break out the dyno. http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/4507.html#000013
Mike C comment of flipping a switch.
Also mine is in there for Realtime Data Acquistion (black box).
Download as soon as you get off the track. Maybe this is best for SSM
J~

Gatoratty Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Johnny...trust me when I say that drivers who will be at the National race at Sebring know most if not all of the tricks...and probably some that we don't even discuss on this site. Most also run a Traqmate system so we could look at qualifying and race data if people are willing to share. Last year at the same race all of the cars were impounded by the National compliance team and had everything checked with the exception of tearing down the motors. Which was done for the top 3.

--------------------
Paul McLester

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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Too funny... I had Jim Drago on the phone the other day and he was acting like he wasn't very familiar with piggyback ECU's [Smile]

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Keith in WA Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Pack Fodder

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On result of the proposed rule changes that's undeniable...any inexpensive '99 4.3 open diff assy for sale dissapeared in a hurry and the ones for sale cost about the same as new '99 4.3 gears from Mazda w/o the diff. [Frown]

--------------------
Keith Novak
(Will work for tires)

TORacing
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I checked w/ Mazdaspeed yesterday and there are NO 4:30 ring and pinion gears in the country...not even a open '99 diff either.

Tommy O

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
Too funny... I had Jim Drago on the phone the other day and he was acting like he wasn't very familiar with piggyback ECU's [Smile]

Just the one you mentioned and the range of things it did and how small it was.. [nope]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

taylorf Verified Driver
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Region: Houston
Car #: 51
Year : 1994
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quote:
Originally posted by Blake Clements:
quote:
Originally posted by JIM DANIELS:
quote:
Originally posted by Cliff BDR:
Lets settle this - Jamie has a portable Dyno, he can take it to the Jan National event, be a man step up and dyno the car, no AF, just HP and TQ numbers.

I think that all will be shocked by what we find:

1. There are some SM's making 125+
2. There are some 1.6L making 123+
3. The top 5 cars will be only 1 or 2 of those elite high hp ones
4. Setup will be credited to the other 3 cars
5. Everyone can stop thinking the guys next to you has 140+
6. Last, Everyone will see I AM DOWN ON POWER !!!

Get everyone to chip in XX amount for the dyno pull and give the Highest HP driver 20%, this way no sandbagging.

My money is on "Rockstar" RRP in the Teletubbie green car. [Wink] [thumbsup]

Needs to be one more category though.

- There are some, legal, SMs making 130+

I'll buy, if you show me which one.... [Big Grin]
If you have 130 and you don't walk the field...in the words of Rick Maki you are a "TURBOLARRY"!

--------------------
Taylor Ferranti

Dwayne Hoover Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I was getting 121 but then found out the correction factor was the Standard. When we switched over to SAE it was 2-3 less. I guess the SAE is what most use. I guess I have a little more work to do.

thanks

pat

I guess I brought a knife to a gun fight,I only have 115hp [banghead]
Thats alright Kuch, the 99 drivers in the know say we are underprepped also. [Mad]

Pat

Pat, all the top 99 drivers I know think the only thing holding Shawn back is the crew chief [Big Grin]

--------------------
Visit the Midland City Arts Festival!

Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Future Never Has Been

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
Too funny... I had Jim Drago on the phone the other day and he was acting like he wasn't very familiar with piggyback ECU's [Smile]

Just the one you mentioned and the range of things it did and how small it was.. [nope]
[rolling on floor laughin] [duck]

had to yank ya chain on that one....

--------------------
Do I turn my 99 Hard S into a killerfast SM or seek a donor?

Jason Holland Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
Mediocrity rules!

Region: SouthEast
Car #: 28
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
Johnny...trust me when I say that drivers who will be at the National race at Sebring know most if not all of the tricks...and probably some that we don't even discuss on this site. Most also run a Traqmate system so we could look at qualifying and race data if people are willing to share. Last year at the same race all of the cars were impounded by the National compliance team and had everything checked with the exception of tearing down the motors. Which was done for the top 3.

The key is to make the data share mandatory. That's how it is in NASA SSM. Pretty easy to see big differences in hp. Alot of people have data now and if they don't, you provide it For them. I've got two traqmates for just. That purpose plus the use of many more if needed. Skips the cheater switch scenario.

--------------------
Jason Holland
Semi-interested civilian

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew Peacock:
Pat

Pat, all the top 99 drivers I know think the only thing holding Shawn back is the crew chief [Big Grin] [/QB][/QUOTE]

[Big Grin] [scratchchin]

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew Peacock:
Pat

Pat, all the top 99 drivers I know think the only thing holding Shawn back is the crew chief [Big Grin]
[Big Grin] [scratchchin] [/QB][/QUOTE]

LOL, it is not from not trying. [Wink]

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny D:
You guys should go back and read this before you break out the dyno. http://forum.specmiata.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/2/4507.html#000013
Mike C comment of flipping a switch.
Also mine is in there for Realtime Data Acquistion (black box).
Download as soon as you get off the track. Maybe this is best for SSM
J~

I have ways of getting around ECUs and other trick stuff

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

Jamie Tucker Series Champ

ARRC 2010 Champ

Region: CFR
Car #: 97
Year : 1990/99
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
Johnny...trust me when I say that drivers who will be at the National race at Sebring know most if not all of the tricks...and probably some that we don't even discuss on this site. Most also run a Traqmate system so we could look at qualifying and race data if people are willing to share. Last year at the same race all of the cars were impounded by the National compliance team and had everything checked with the exception of tearing down the motors. Which was done for the top 3.

I will have 3 99s there and anybody who wants my data and dyno sheets can have them. They can even run the dyno if they would like. Just please tie may car down this time.

--------------------
2010 ARRC Champion
2010 CFR Champion
2010 instigator of the year
2010/2011 Andrew Von C Wingman

David Dewhurst
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***there are NO 4:30 ring and pinion gears in the country...not even a open '99 diff either.***

Not true, I just looked & found 6 or 8 99 + open 4.3 ring gear for $200.00 or less with approx eighty open units across the U.S. Give Jim Drago a call at East Street Salvage. 1-800-700-9080

--------------------
Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew Peacock:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
quote:
Originally posted by pat slattery:
I was getting 121 but then found out the correction factor was the Standard. When we switched over to SAE it was 2-3 less. I guess the SAE is what most use. I guess I have a little more work to do.

thanks

pat

I guess I brought a knife to a gun fight,I only have 115hp [banghead]
Thats alright Kuch, the 99 drivers in the know say we are underprepped also. [Mad]

Pat

Pat, all the top 99 drivers I know think the only thing holding Shawn back is the crew chief [Big Grin]
That's what my problem was,Damn it Dave and Howard! [laughing]
[laughing] [laughing]

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

Jerret Gerber
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Kuch dont feel bad on the hp issue, my 95 has been producing 110hp running in the 48's at RA. I have had a 46 at the kat nat until the big one happened.

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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Year : 1991
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I don't feel bad that was my first time on the track and only had about 40min. of track time before the race.I'm sure the next time out with the same car I should be able to hit a low 47 maybe a high 46!

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
Veteran Member

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Car #: 45
Year : 1991
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I just don't think a 1.6 has a chance to win at RA even with a top notch 1.6.If it honestly could don't you think there would have been a lot more in the race?

Yes the 1.6 can run a couple fast laps to be compared to the 99's but can't run that pace for the hole race.The car will hold up the tires won't!

I just have to start looking for a 99,Jim do you take credit cards? [scratchchin]

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

 
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