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Author Topic: 1.6 cars
Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Cajun Miata Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
8 nationals in the SWDIV in 2009

1.6 3-1st 4-2nd 4-3rd = 100 points
1.8 1-2nd 1-3rd = 16 points
99 5-1st 3-2nd 3-3rd = 108 points

And that was with a breakdown of about 60% 1.6s, 15% 1.8s and 25% 99s -- this year it is looking more like 50% 1.6s, 1% 1.8s and 49% 99s -- so I predict a year of podiums of mostly 99 drivers, shrinking car counts and happy 99 builders and prep shops.

And could you also tabulate for me the average experience level and prep quality for each model year in 2009 our division?
I know it is all bout skill and prep -- but I did see some skilled and well preped 99 drivers that had some bad luck that made the results more even. where is the kool-aid greamlins when I need it [Smile]

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

Cajun Miata Man Verified Driver
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Region: Houston; SWDIV
Car #: 15
Year : 99
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quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
quote:
Originally posted by Cajun Miata Man:
quote:
Originally posted by Willie the Tard:
8 nationals in the SWDIV in 2009

1.6 3-1st 4-2nd 4-3rd = 100 points
1.8 1-2nd 1-3rd = 16 points
99 5-1st 3-2nd 3-3rd = 108 points

And that was with a breakdown of about 60% 1.6s, 15% 1.8s and 25% 99s -- this year it is looking more like 50% 1.6s, 1% 1.8s and 49% 99s -- so I predict a year of podiums of mostly 99 drivers, shrinking car counts and happy 99 builders and prep shops.

And could you also tabulate for me the average experience level and prep quality for each model year in 2009 our division?
I know it is all bout skill and prep -- but I did see some skilled and well preped 99 drivers that had some bad luck that made the results more even. where is the kool-aid greamlins when I need it [Smile]
Well, the thing about luck (bad) is that it usually manifest itself without discrimination to a particular car year so it all balances out. Except for you. I try to stay away to keep that funk off me. Probably being punished from opening Willie's 99 Shop.

--------------------
James York


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Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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my funk is due to not being able to drive -- not bad luck

--------------------
William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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If we are talking about the Runoffs,there were a few 99s that went off during the race.I think there was about 4 to 5 of them and that would have added a few more to the top 10 or 15.

I'm not a complainer,so take this with a grain of salt.I don't have a top notch car,hell I still have the stock open rear end in it.But I will say that RA does favor the 99s.At Mid-O, Nelson Ledges and a couple other tracks I can keep up and beat some of the top prepped car's and driver's but that's driving the hell out of it.What I'm trying to say is YES the car's have some parity at some tracks but not at all of them,like RA!

Let's have a show of hands and post how many people are building 1.6 vs 99 right now and then lets see how many 1.6s will be at the Runoffs this year!

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

38BFAST Verified Driver
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I am not convinced that the 99 craze is all about the car being the fastest. I may be wrong but I think its popularity is due to some other factors. I could be wrong but this is what I am hearing from people who are building 99s

Easier to find a clean low mileage donor.
Part variance is much less with the 99s. takes far less to get a “top shelf car”
Easier to tune to peak HP/Torque.
More forging to drive
OBDII is very nice to have.
Seems some people like the looks over the pop up head lights
Drago likes them and he is fast.
If all the cars are the same then 99s are the path with the least resistance to “top shelf”.
1.6 are way too much work to keep them up to snuff.

Not saying that it’s all reality but I do here the same things over and over.

Kuch, You need motor. At Mid-O you could out drive me but I could way out motor you. Could not do that with the Bennett/Walsh 1.6. At RA your lack of power was killing you. The great thing about you is, no matter how you finish you have a big smile at the end.

--------------------
Ralph Provitz
#38
2008 WHRRI SM Champion
2008 WHRRI Top 10 Overall
V2 Motorsports, Race support, Data Dude

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by 38BFAST:
I am not convinced that the 99 craze is all about the car being the fastest. I may be wrong but I think its popularity is due to some other factors. I could be wrong but this is what I am hearing from people who are building 99s

Easier to find a clean low mileage donor.
Part variance is much less with the 99s. takes far less to get a “top shelf car”
Easier to tune to peak HP/Torque.
More forging to drive
OBDII is very nice to have.
Seems some people like the looks over the pop up head lights
Drago likes them and he is fast.
If all the cars are the same then 99s are the path with the least resistance to “top shelf”.
1.6 are way too much work to keep them up to snuff.

Not saying that it’s all reality but I do here the same things over and over.

Kuch, You need motor. At Mid-O you could out drive me but I could way out motor you. Could not do that with the Bennett/Walsh 1.6. At RA your lack of power was killing you. The great thing about you is, no matter how you finish you have a big smile at the end.

Ralph,isn't that what it's all about Having a big smile at the end of the day! [Big Grin] [yep]

I think that's why some people don't like me,because i'm having to much fun!

Did you buy another car yet?I had a lot of fun racing with you!

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

38BFAST Verified Driver
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Kuch, I had a blast racing with you. You smile was contagious. I just don’t think we would have good parity with my new ride.

 -

--------------------
Ralph Provitz
#38
2008 WHRRI SM Champion
2008 WHRRI Top 10 Overall
V2 Motorsports, Race support, Data Dude

d mathias Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Sweet ride Ralph. Can I drive it?

David Dewhurst
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Bob, it was lonely at the Runoffs tent meeting. Or should I say it was lonely at the Runoffs 1.6 tent meeting. This meeting will come to [Smash] opp's there 's only three here. [help]

Meeting over. [yep]

--------------------
Have Fun [Wink]

David Dewhurst
CenDiv
Milwaukee Region
Spec Miata #14

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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Ralph,that car looks bad@## [thumbsup] how is it to drive?

After your done raping it you will have to let me do a couple laps on a fun day before you get rid of it! [yep]

PS you have way to much money on your hands care to share! [laughing]

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

soupy
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Bob, don't kid yourself there's other reasons people don't like you. [flamed]
I don't think we should be using the Runoffs to judge the "99s. If they hadn't all had the tricked up ECU and the fp regulators maybe they wouldn't have had so much power the drivers could have kept them on the track????? [duck]

--------------------
Charlie Campbell
Race Engineering
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Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

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Anybody who's seen my car knows it's not prepped to the same level as Drago's. But that doesn't seem to matter anywhere but RA. Most other places we go, we've been pretty even in the past couple seasons, (I think Jim would agree here). Maybe he just doesn't bring his A game when he races in MiDiv because he's not a competitive person at all...yeah...that's it. [Wink]

Folks, the 1.6 can be, and is, competitive in the right hands, with the current rules.

I drove my 1.6 car with the wheels on sideways to outside pole and 4th at the '08 Sprints (ask Jim and Gary about the setup we found on the car at the '09 sprints, which hadn't been changed since '08). Saini drove a 1.6 car to the podium that same race, and probably had the pace (and more importantly, talent) to win if not for the early checker. We (bennett-drago-wiese-saini) were nose-to-tail the whole time until saini got by me right before the double yellow. The rules with respect to performance potential of 1.6 vs. '99 haven't changed much since then,

I know what I've seen on track. Yes, the 1.6 is a torqueless wonder and probably is handicapped at RA. Yes, it's harder to drive around mistakes. But it's not uncompetitive. The '99 is heavy, it's hard on tires, it runs out of breath at the top of 4th gear right when the 1.6 is getting its legs.

Pick your poison.

If I were building one, it'd be a '99, for all the reasons Drago mentioned. But not because the 1.6 is uncompetitive.

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by soupy:
Bob, don't kid yourself there's other reasons people don't like you. [flamed]
I don't think we should be using the Runoffs to judge the "99s. If they hadn't all had the tricked up ECU and the fp regulators maybe they wouldn't have had so much power the drivers could have kept them on the track????? [duck]

Hey Charlie let me use your car for the Runoffs this year,I'm sure I would be in the top 15 if not better! [yep]

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich:
Anybody who's seen my car knows it's not prepped to the same level as Drago's. But that doesn't seem to matter anywhere but RA. Most other places we go, we've been pretty even in the past couple seasons, (I think Jim would agree here). Maybe he just doesn't bring his A game when he races in MiDiv because he's not a competitive person at all...yeah...that's it. [Wink]

Folks, the 1.6 can be, and is, competitive in the right hands, with the current rules.

I drove my 1.6 car with the wheels on sideways to outside pole and 4th at the '08 Sprints (ask Jim and Gary about the setup we found on the car at the '09 sprints, which hadn't been changed since '08). Saini drove a 1.6 car to the podium that same race, and probably had the pace (and more importantly, talent) to win if not for the early checker. We (bennett-drago-wiese-saini) were nose-to-tail the whole time until saini got by me right before the double yellow. The rules with respect to performance potential of 1.6 vs. '99 haven't changed much since then,

I know what I've seen on track. Yes, the 1.6 is a torqueless wonder and probably is handicapped at RA. Yes, it's harder to drive around mistakes. But it's not uncompetitive. The '99 is heavy, it's hard on tires, it runs out of breath at the top of 4th gear right when the 1.6 is getting its legs.

Pick your poison.

If I were building one, it'd be a '99, for all the reasons Drago mentioned. But not because the 1.6 is uncompetitive.

Rich,I agree with you 100% but RA is the one that counts.

What lap times were you guy's running?

I got down to 49's and that was my first time at the track with about 40 min. of track time total before the race.And thats in my car witch is about a mid pack car at best compared to todays standards.

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

Rich Verified Driver
Oh, that's where that is.

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quote:
Originally posted by B(Kuch) Kucera 45:
Rich,I agree with you 100% but RA is the one that counts.

What lap times were you guy's running?

I got down to 49's and that was my first time at the track with about 40 min. of track time total before the race.And thats in my car witch is about a mid pack car at best compared to todays standards.

Bob - I think I was in the 46's in Qualifying in '08 and 47's in the race, I'd have to check mylaps.

Checked mylaps...

'08 Q Bennett 45.6 Wiese 45.8 Drago 45.9
'08 Race Bennett 46.4 Drago 46.4 Saini 46.4 Wiese 46.5

'09 Q Drago 46.5 Wiese (6th) 47.7, nobody else cracked into the 46's but Drago
'09 Race Drago 48.3 Charbonneau 48.3 ChipVV 47.6 Wiese 48.5

I got dropped from the draft group during the restart and basically ran by myself after going from 8th to 3rd in 2 corners, then got passed by a green and black blur a few laps later. But the lack of a clean draft lap probably explains why I didn't get a 47 in during the race.

--------------------
Rich Wiese

Spec Wrecker Ford

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Rich:
I drove my 1.6 car with the wheels on sideways to outside pole and 4th at the '08 Sprints (ask Jim and Gary about the setup we found on the car at the '09 sprints, which hadn't been changed since '08).

I truly thought I was in major trouble at the Sprints after setting up your car, it was a mess! Thankfully it had been set up so wrong for so long it took a few sessions for you to relearn how to drive it! [Razz] Still fun, at the end of the day, we have had some really fun races, including the snow bowl last year :)Thats what it is all about.

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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I was wondering,how much of a diff. being down 5hp would be at RA? Just a estimate on a lap time with no draft!

--------------------
Bob
!KUCH!

"All my drinking buddies have a racing problem"

38BFAST Verified Driver
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It's not as much about HP as it is Torque. What torque numbers are you making.

--------------------
Ralph Provitz
#38
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2008 WHRRI Top 10 Overall
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davew Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I can't tell you what the lack of horsepower factor is at Road America. But I can tell you something about Sebring in January.

3 laps into the test day we overheated big time. Head is ruined, no compression. I get a head overnited to the track and get it installed on Friday afternoon, after qualifying. Saturday is raining. We qualify 38th. Finish 7th with 3rd fastest race lap. Sunday is dry, we qualify mid teens, finish 10th.

As some of you know, I just bought a dyno. I used a rental car to get accostume to the software. Then we put the Sebring car on the dyno. He was right, it is a little down on power. Down 20+hp at 103.8hp. Did I mention the motor got really hot!!!!!

A 1995 1.8 with 103 horsepower gets two top ten finishes at a National race against some of the best car/driver combinations in the country. At a track with long straights.

The guys up front may have more power, they may have more money, the may be cheating, BUT they are definately out driving you. Whomever finished 11th and back at that National race got beat by 103 hp.

Those are facts.
Dave

--------------------
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TimBuck Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
I'll believe it when I believe it.

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Too true Dave. But nobody will ever believe it!!!

[Smile]

--------------------
Tim Buck

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ExRoadRacer
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This reminds me of the gaming web sites I used to go to... When people start over analyzing the issues they have to deal with someone will invariably finish the thread with

L2P (learn to play)

I think what Dave just said was L2D [crackup]

Drago Verified Driver Made Donation to Website Series Champ
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While I think what Dave said has a lot of merit. I would flip that and say, I doubt ANYBODY could get in one of these cars down 5 hp and win a non rain race in a competitive national field.

--------------------
Jim Drago
East Street Auto Salvage
jdrago1@aol.com
2006-2007 Mid-West Division
07,09 June Sprints Champion

EAST STREET RACING

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by davew:
I can't tell you what the lack of horsepower factor is at Road America. But I can tell you something about Sebring in January.

3 laps into the test day we overheated big time. Head is ruined, no compression. I get a head overnited to the track and get it installed on Friday afternoon, after qualifying. Saturday is raining. We qualify 38th. Finish 7th with 3rd fastest race lap. Sunday is dry, we qualify mid teens, finish 10th.

As some of you know, I just bought a dyno. I used a rental car to get accostume to the software. Then we put the Sebring car on the dyno. He was right, it is a little down on power. Down 20+hp at 103.8hp. Did I mention the motor got really hot!!!!!

A 1995 1.8 with 103 horsepower gets two top ten finishes at a National race against some of the best car/driver combinations in the country. At a track with long straights.

The guys up front may have more power, they may have more money, the may be cheating, BUT they are definately out driving you. Whomever finished 11th and back at that National race got beat by 103 hp.

Those are facts.
Dave

What kind of dyno?

Alex Bolanos Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
While I think what Dave said has a lot of merit. I would flip that and say, I doubt ANYBODY could get in one of these cars down 5 hp and win a none rain race in a competitive national field.

Agreed, it sounds like he's using a Dyno Dynamics or Mustang dyno.

Kyle Freiheit
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Dave,
Time to put some other cars on that dyno for comparison [Smile]

Kyle

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by davew:
I can't tell you what the lack of horsepower factor is at Road America. But I can tell you something about Sebring in January.

3 laps into the test day we overheated big time. Head is ruined, no compression. I get a head overnited to the track and get it installed on Friday afternoon, after qualifying. Saturday is raining. We qualify 38th. Finish 7th with 3rd fastest race lap. Sunday is dry, we qualify mid teens, finish 10th.

As some of you know, I just bought a dyno. I used a rental car to get accostume to the software. Then we put the Sebring car on the dyno. He was right, it is a little down on power. Down 20+hp at 103.8hp. Did I mention the motor got really hot!!!!!

A 1995 1.8 with 103 horsepower gets two top ten finishes at a National race against some of the best car/driver combinations in the country. At a track with long straights.

The guys up front may have more power, they may have more money, the may be cheating, BUT they are definately out driving you. Whomever finished 11th and back at that National race got beat by 103 hp.

Those are facts.
Dave

Dave, it is time to put some weight on those 95 cars [Big Grin] [yep]

Pat

--------------------
keeping the faith for the 1.6

Arrow Karts

 
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