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» Hello Spec Miata Community » Sports Car Club of America » SCCA South-East » POLL: Are you in favor of legalizing bump drafting for SM in SCCA?

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Author Topic: POLL: Are you in favor of legalizing bump drafting for SM in SCCA?
SamBarnett Verified Driver
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Subject to the following set of restrictions (same as NASA):

1. Nose/tail contact and both cars continue undisturbed down the straight -- no foul.
2. Nose/tail contact and the front car gets lifted into the air -- foul!
3. Nose/tail contact and the front car wiggles -- FOUL!
4. Nose/tail contact and front car slides wide in the turn or spins -- FOUL!!
5. If someone has an "X" on their back bumper you are not allowed to bump draft them

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Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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What about nose/tail resulting in broke pieces of the hittee?

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SamBarnett Verified Driver
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If something gets broken I wouldn't consider that "undisturbed" as referenced in #1.

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Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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How are we going to police the X rule? I can think of a half dozen places at Road Atlanta where you can bump draft and we ain't gonna be able to see it. Then it becomes a he said/she said game, who wins in that case? The hitter? Hittee? No one? Driver has a broken bumper cover.. same deal, it's in no mans land so it doesn't land in the log leaving us back at he said/she said.

Saying a rule should be such and such is one thing, determining how to police and enforce it is another.

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Richard Pressman Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
How are we going to police the X rule?

Yellow mustard packets on the rear bumpers of "X" marked cars.

Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Not sure a wiggle counts as contact for nasa rules. I think you have to send them off their line.

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SamBarnett Verified Driver
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I think all policing of these rules should be by driver protest. Use cameras, witnesses, etc.

If there are half a dozen places that you can bump draft at RA without being able to see it, what would it matter if we have a rule about it or not? Sounds like fair game even with the current rule set unless someone wants to protest it.

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taylorf Verified Driver
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<------Already bump drafts in SCCA!

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Taylor Ferranti

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Driver protest? You mean the ones where everyone grumbles, posts on forums that such and such did this, or they are cheating at that yet very little paperwork is ever filed? Very few drivers throw paperwork, I'd be real curious to know how many protests were filed in SCCA SM over the past couple of years.

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Hotshoe
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Pressman:
quote:
Originally posted by Lance Snyder:
How are we going to police the X rule?

Yellow mustard packets on the rear bumpers of "X" marked cars.
What if yer already yella.............LOL

pat slattery Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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Ketchup!

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quote:
Originally posted by taylorf:
<------Already bump drafts in SCCA!

You actually have enough power to get to someones bumper? [Big Grin]

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Jim Drago
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Willie the Tard Verified Driver
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quote:
Originally posted by taylorf:
<------Already bump drafts in SCCA!

no you don't -- that was shift related contact [Wink]

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
quote:
Originally posted by taylorf:
<------Already bump drafts in SCCA!

You actually have enough power to get to someones bumper? [Big Grin]
he was the bumpee not the bumper

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William Keeling a.k.a. Willie the Tard

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 -

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Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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From Click and Clack's private reserve.

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B(Kuch) Kucera 45 Verified Driver
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Damn,there's no bump drafting now! [banghead] It's a good thing no one ever looked at my bumpers,I would have put some clear tape on them to hold the paint on better!

I never read the GCR,I just look at the picture's and I never saw a picture with a circle and two cars bumper to bumper with a line through it!So I thought is was ok! [Big Grin]

I'm all for it,it's a part of any kind of racing! [yep]

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MPR22
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Taylor told me it was ok to bump the car in front of me to let him know you would like to pass him at his earliest possible conveinence.

So let me get this straight.

After following the same car around for 8 laps, I finally get enough exit speed to pull up to his bumper. We touch ever so softly 1, 2, 3 times and the next lap the S/F flagger is pointing his furled flag at me and waiving a 22 on his sign. Now you guys are telling me that this was not his way of applauding my courteous driving? [Frown] [Eek!]

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Michael Ross

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I voted yes, but I think the X thing is a bad idea. All in or all out.

Just one guy's opinion.

Dean

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X is for a novice. Either you can do it, or you can't.
wheel

Goggles Pisano
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One of the reasons I got into SM from T1 was the close racing! To me, that includes bump drafting.
Car racing has become too safe already. Maybe I'll switch to motorcycle road racing.
Kidding.

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I think that bump drafting is ok, but the policing should be done by the drivers. My criteria would be that we are on a straight, and well clear of braking areas.

I like the idea of a bright X for anybody that does not want to be bumped, and novices, but they should not be bumping anybody else if they choose to wear the X.

As far as bumper damage, you pay to play. Handle stupid moves and overly hard hits with protest paper.

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Glenn Davis

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I think Carl Edwards did a little policing of his own this weekend [Wink] 3 week probation was a joke for that IMO,he should have beensat for a month and on probation the rest of the season.
Jim

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Jim Drago
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Lance Snyder Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Drago:
I think Carl Edwards did a little policing of his own this weekend [Wink] 3 week probation was a joke for that IMO,he should have beensat for a month and on probation the rest of the season.
Jim

Problem is this is what Nascrap wanted, and if someone gets hurt so be it. I figured it wouldn't take long to abuse the new get back at ya privilege.

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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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NASCAR is going to have a real liability issue on their hands. Publically adevertising on TV showing that full contact racing is back in favor...... and someone is going to get hurt of killed.

What Karl did was not cool. Sure its no different to DE Senior in his days, every race, but with these rear wings this is getting ugly. Sure the wings are going, but when Edwards was tagged at Taladhega by BK, with the old rear spoiler he still got airborne.

I am all FOR bump drafting SM, it makes our races way more fun and it adds another dimension to our racing, you have to use your head! It requires strategy, team work, on the track instant alliances, even with sworn enemies, and so much more.

But I am NOT in favor of anything like we see in NASCAR. None of us have the funds for that.

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Dan Tiley Verified Driver Series Champ
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+1 on YES for allowing bump drafting. Also +1 for the "X" on bumpers for cars that don't want to play that way.

I can definitely understand why some people are uncomfortable with the idea of bumpdrafting, and there is no reason for people to have to do something they're not comfortable with.

Everyone gets their way with this one! How do we elevate this to the next level?

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D.B. Cutler Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I'm ok with bump drafting.

However, I get real nervous when Tiley comes up behind me when I'm out of the car.

Dan Tiley Verified Driver Series Champ
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quote:
Originally posted by D.B. Cutler:
I'm ok with bump drafting.

However, I get real nervous when Tiley comes up behind me when I'm out of the car.

Then put an "X" on your rear end.

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SamBarnett Verified Driver
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I believe taking this to the next level would be taking it to the SMAC? Correct? I will write up a proposal if necessary and get signatures, etc. Whatever is needed. Can someone from the SMAC please chime in and let us know what we need to do?

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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I'm sure our SMACers can weigh in here, but this is bigger than SM. This is a core issue for SCCA for 'safety' and 'fairness' not just about what SM racers want.

My opinion... you'll have to get more than just SpecPinata on board to make it reality. I suggest someone diplomatic needs to make overtures to the other classes that care: FV for sure, others?

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Z-MAN Verified Driver
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I don't have a problem with bump drafting but I think the insurance company that issues our bonds is going to veto any contact being allowed even if 100% of us say we want to allow it.

MZ

oem steve
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If I put a couple of X's on my rear bumper would somebody please push me to the front, thanks in advance, Steve

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SCCA's insurance has nothing to do with this issue (direct from the BOD) it has to do with defining the rule and enforcement and the fact that it may be okay for a Spec Miata at 115 mph...but may not be okay for a car doing 180 mph plus.

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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
SCCA's insurance has nothing to do with this issue (direct from the BOD) it has to do with defining the rule and enforcement and the fact that it may be okay for a Spec Miata at 115 mph...but may not be okay for a car doing 180 mph plus.

Don't the 99's go 180+ at most tracks? [thumbsup] [duck]

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Kent Carter Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
SCCA's insurance has nothing to do with this issue (direct from the BOD) it has to do with defining the rule and enforcement and the fact that it may be okay for a Spec Miata at 115 mph...but may not be okay for a car doing 180 mph plus.

What I heard at the Convention direct from the BOD members was that they felt it was unsportsmanlike for two cars to 'hook up' and gap the field. Lots of gray heads nodded when that was said.

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Rob Burgoon Verified Driver
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Any and all drafting is unsportsmanlike. Check. Everyone, kindly GTFO of line.

LOL!

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hythloday
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I'm sure it's safe. I just don't think racing is a team sport. There are enough unfair advantages out there as is.

SamBarnett Verified Driver
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The beauty of bump drafting is that even people that don't like each other can end up being best buddies in the middle of a race trying to catch the leader. Just because P1 and P2 can bump draft doesn't mean that P3, P4, P5 can't all work together too. With legal bump drafting it could actually make the racing even better and closer...

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quote:
Originally posted by Kent Carter:
quote:
Originally posted by Gatoratty:
SCCA's insurance has nothing to do with this issue (direct from the BOD) it has to do with defining the rule and enforcement and the fact that it may be okay for a Spec Miata at 115 mph...but may not be okay for a car doing 180 mph plus.

What I heard at the Convention direct from the BOD members was that they felt it was unsportsmanlike for two cars to 'hook up' and gap the field. Lots of gray heads nodded when that was said.
Kent may be on to something here...for the gray beards (mine included), the "field" can always hook up and catch the leaders. More importantly, if bump drafting were allowed, there might be less dive bombing and Bristol bumps in the first two or three laps while everyone is desperately trying to shove to the front before the break away occurs. Bump drafting leading to LESS damage? hmmmm...I like it.

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quote:
Originally posted by hythloday:
I'm sure it's safe. I just don't think racing is a team sport. There are enough unfair advantages out there as is.

Race team. Just saying.

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Danny Steyn Verified Driver
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quote:
Race team. Just saying.
Dennis - you're just gonna have to get your brother up to speed real fast or get one of your BSI buddies on your tail real soon.......

or maybe its you and me, Cliffie, high chair, Munson et al - the Florida race team .... sounds good to me!

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Dennis Bize Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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The kid's getting there. Another year or two and he'll have a cheesy nickname as well.

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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis Bize:
The kid's getting there. Another year or two and he'll have a cheesy nickname as well.

At least yours won't be high chair or midget!

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Dennis Bize Verified Driver Made Donation to Website
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I kind of like it. It's very becoming.

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